tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post5427024289820094344..comments2024-03-28T08:57:53.180+00:00Comments on Darwinian Conservatism by Larry Arnhart: Does The American Black/White IQ Gap Refute Human Equality?Larry Arnharthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-55449821071963094672014-07-08T10:56:13.542+01:002014-07-08T10:56:13.542+01:00"Or can we affirm the equal dignity of all hu..."Or can we affirm the equal dignity of all human beings as a moral and political principle that has nothing to do with the scientific question of whether human beings are in fact equal or unequal in their genetic nature,"<br /><br />I would say that on the face of it such a political principle would mandate open borders. Because people who are currently denied the right to enter because they were born in other countries could claim it violates their human dignity to be refused entry, (and they could claim it is racism too).<br /><br />So in practice, as yet, the proposed equal human dignity principle is within the defined bounds of a nation state. If the principle is proposed to be truly universal then that ought to be made clear, especially in a discussion that is about racial discrimination.<br /><br />I believe Flynn now says the IQ gap being subcultural - environmental is not provable, either way. I'm sure Flynn is very familiar with Moore's study, but is wary of staking much in the way of genralisations on it.<br /><br />I would point out though that there are many African Americans who grow up with a middle class ethos living among white people. There is research showing there was a whole class of educated blacks who left black areas, and it was after they left that black areas became so 'subcutural'.<br /><br />So we don't know enough to say if the middle class blacks who left black areas were the cultural or genetic cream. The facts are open to either interpretation.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-4502252992253073652014-06-17T15:22:40.313+01:002014-06-17T15:22:40.313+01:00HBD + meritocracy = hereditary aristocracyHBD + meritocracy = hereditary aristocracyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-12900794678962949352014-06-14T13:24:14.532+01:002014-06-14T13:24:14.532+01:00Larry,
On the Elsie Moore study-- the kids were t...Larry,<br /><br />On the Elsie Moore study-- the kids were tested at 7-10 years of age. Hereditarians acknowledge that environment plays a significant role at that age. <br /><br />Need to look at late adolescence, at a minimum, but heritability increases up to full adulthood (early 20s).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-9485610471285941572014-06-11T01:55:43.730+01:002014-06-11T01:55:43.730+01:00If you have a sincere interest in getting to the b...If you have a sincere interest in getting to the bottom of the cause of the gap, I think you need to come to terms with the hereditarian view as argued by some of its abler proponents.<br /><br />Here is a paper by Jensen and Rushton that answers many of the objections to the hereditarian position:<br /><br />http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf<br /><br />Don't allow Flynn to pick his cherries without a rebuttal. candid_observernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-61625510417382728562014-06-10T22:32:58.214+01:002014-06-10T22:32:58.214+01:00Doesn't created equal mean equal rights under ...Doesn't created equal mean equal rights under the law? And maybe that everyone's future welfare have an equal claim to consideration when it comes to formulating our nation's trade, tax, and immigration policies, etc.? As opposed to government of the smartest, by the smartest, and for the smartest?Luke Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11290760894780619646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-73888369270834257762014-06-10T16:00:57.578+01:002014-06-10T16:00:57.578+01:00No, the mean IQs of the two groups--the white and ...No, the mean IQs of the two groups--the white and half-black children--were virtually identical. So there was no advantage in having a white father rather than a black father.<br /><br />This shows that the root causes of the black-white IQ gap in America disappeared in Germany. When black genes were transplanted into white German women, the half-black children grew up in a nation with no black subculture.Larry Arnharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-85101075755382715592014-06-10T15:40:15.116+01:002014-06-10T15:40:15.116+01:00Wait, so those whose mothers were German and fathe...Wait, so those whose mothers were German and fathers were African-American scored somewhat between the black and white averages? How in the world does that disprove hereditarianism? Seems to absolutely confirm it in that if you have white genes you score higher.<br />Elsewhere you have judged it plausible that Ashkenazi Jews have higher intelligence. (See Steven Pinker's great series of videos on this on YouTube). It seems like it has become acceptable to say that Jews are smarter but everyone else is identical. (Ridiculous to believe that one one group is different, but it is progress.) Soon it will become acceptable to admit that Asians are smarter as the evidence become overwhelming. But never will it be acceptable to say that whites are smarter than any other group.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-8260400265434008192014-06-08T01:15:14.942+01:002014-06-08T01:15:14.942+01:00As far as I know, there are no studies that indica...As far as I know, there are no studies that indicate that black identical twins reared apart--one twin in a black family and one in a white family--show exactly the same IQ. Does anyone have any evidence to contradict this?Larry Arnharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-8688683188509300902014-06-07T22:03:45.045+01:002014-06-07T22:03:45.045+01:00Flynn never denies the reality of the Flynn effect...Flynn never denies the reality of the Flynn effect.<br /><br />Flynn emphasizes that the average IQ for Africans today is about the same as it was for white Americans in 1900. That shows that the Flynn effect could raise African IQ just as much it has raised American white IQ.Larry Arnharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-13939141425856304312014-06-07T21:58:07.117+01:002014-06-07T21:58:07.117+01:00Here's Rindermann surveying all the latest stu...Here's Rindermann surveying all the latest studies on African cognitive ability:<br /><br />http://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/african-cognitive-ability.pdf<br /><br /><br />I agree with you about the fairness of Flynn. Flynn isn't even sure the Flynn effect is real. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-72143030503930485152014-06-07T21:57:57.757+01:002014-06-07T21:57:57.757+01:00This book by Nancy Segal says nothing about identi...This book by Nancy Segal says nothing about identical black twins reared apart. So where is the study to which you referred?Larry Arnharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-39857686999622822182014-06-07T21:51:25.054+01:002014-06-07T21:51:25.054+01:00Flynn said nothing about Africans immigrating to G...Flynn said nothing about Africans immigrating to Germany. He was talking about the offspring of American black soldiers marrying German women as compared with the offspring of American white soldiers marrying German women. Larry Arnharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-33294768165566049702014-06-07T21:45:33.652+01:002014-06-07T21:45:33.652+01:00Here's a review of new book on Minnesota twin ...Here's a review of new book on Minnesota twin study:<br /><br />http://www.amren.com/features/2012/07/science-versus-ideology/<br /><br /><br />I think this may be the only review of the book, although it was published by Harvard Press.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-28496658874294071672014-06-07T20:37:09.951+01:002014-06-07T20:37:09.951+01:00Could you give me the citation for the study of bl...Could you give me the citation for the study of black identical twins reared apart? Were some reared in white adoptive families and some in black adoptive families?<br /><br />In some studies of adoption, those black babies adopted into white families have higher IQs than those black babies adopted into black families.Larry Arnharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-57959195904113208792014-06-07T18:55:08.435+01:002014-06-07T18:55:08.435+01:00A few points of refutation for Flynn:
Minnesota T...A few points of refutation for Flynn:<br /><br />Minnesota Twin Study: Black identical twins separated at birth, where one was raised in white affluent household and the other in poorer household, end up with same IQs around age of 20.<br /><br />Flynn actually got data wrong on blacks in Germany. What you are dealing with in Germany is selective immigration. Higher IQ Africans going to Germany, but these blacks aren’t representative of the averages of their countries, which often have IQs of only 70 or so. (Also Africans countries don’t have American ghetto culture and yet black Africans have lower IQs than American blacks on average.) (Regarding selective immigration, you also see this with Indians in the USA — average IQ of India only 82 but the far right side of this bell curve tends to go to USA.)<br /><br />Poor whites, on average, score higher on SAT than rich blacks. (See recent Sailer post with data.)<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-41915665375636885832014-06-07T18:10:43.871+01:002014-06-07T18:10:43.871+01:00I know what you're saying. If there's a g...I know what you're saying. If there's a genetic gap, that would influence the learning environment. But the Elsie Moore study shows that black children adopted by white parents are capable of benefiting from the cognitively enriched environment of a white family, suggesting that black children are equal to white children in genetic potential for cultural learning.Larry Arnharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-27876173279054120392014-06-07T17:41:31.852+01:002014-06-07T17:41:31.852+01:00Seems like the second line of argument could be us...Seems like the second line of argument could be used as evidence for either side.FredRnoreply@blogger.com