tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post4136802257344713474..comments2024-03-28T08:57:53.180+00:00Comments on Darwinian Conservatism by Larry Arnhart: Classical Liberalism as Evolutionary Niche Construction for Declining Violence: Bonobos and HumansLarry Arnharthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-83293187113310296212014-03-29T17:07:02.368+00:002014-03-29T17:07:02.368+00:00Roger,
Yes, part of the theory of niche construct...Roger,<br /><br />Yes, part of the theory of niche construction is that genetic evolution can be an adaptation to culturally constructed environments.Larry Arnharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-2056811711416887482014-03-29T16:38:13.951+00:002014-03-29T16:38:13.951+00:00An interesting argument that niche construction ha...An interesting argument that niche construction has caused genetic change ("increased amishness") among the Amish:<br /><br />http://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/03/cochran-harpending-paper-on-amish.htmlRoger Sweenyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12734128265493099062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-30258935892657269642014-03-27T16:15:44.352+00:002014-03-27T16:15:44.352+00:00I would be curious as to what you think about thes...I would be curious as to what you think about <a href="http://zatavu.blogspot.com/2014/03/on-origins-of-liberals-and-conservatives.html" rel="nofollow">these musings</a> on conservatism/illiberalism and liberalism.Troy Camplinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16515578686042143845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-56740072695454661452014-03-25T09:50:37.060+00:002014-03-25T09:50:37.060+00:00I agree with both Mr. Guida and Mr. Bond.
If well...I agree with both Mr. Guida and Mr. Bond.<br /><br />If well-armed classical liberal regimes are replaced by disarmed welfare-state liberal regimes, it's not clear to me that Pinker's pattern of declining violence and increasing liberty can continue.<br /><br />Last fall, when I participated in the workshop in Freiburg, Germany, on evolution and liberalism, I noticed that the discussion of the evolution of classical liberalism was silent about the importance of warfare in this evolution. <br /><br />I pointed out--as Mr. Bond has just done--that the military success of the liberal regimes in defeating the illiberal regimes was crucial for the evolution of classical liberalism. The Europeans responded with blank stares of incomprehension. One person said that, of course, it was no longer necessary to fight wars.<br /><br />Mr. Putin's moves in recent days remind us that keeping the liberal peace requires a well-armed liberalism.Larry Arnharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619785331100785170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-91171154017456736682014-03-25T00:25:10.544+00:002014-03-25T00:25:10.544+00:00To echo Mr. Guida, another (rhetorical) question r...To echo Mr. Guida, another (rhetorical) question regarding the modern welfare state vs. the classic liberal state in regards to this post:<br /><br />The classic liberal state has proved itself both willing to defend itself against its illiberal enemies and effective at doing so – the punctuations of “sawtooth” violence during the described decline in violence that is correlated with the ascendance of the liberal state. Put another way, if the U.S. had not been victorious (or contributed significantly to the victory) in the U.S. Civil War, WWI, WWII, and the Cold War, then the phenomena studied by Pinker might have looked quite different. <br /><br />Whether the new illiberal threats come from without or within, are the secular, increasingly indebted, increasingly bureaucratic, increasingly childless, modern administrative-welfare states of Europe and the U.S. up to the task? Will they be in a generation even if they are now? W. Bondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11876061563314623223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16355954.post-11147394997130826482014-03-23T21:32:33.421+00:002014-03-23T21:32:33.421+00:00Had I been born a bonobo, I surely would met my en...Had I been born a bonobo, I surely would met my end slamming into a tree. But instead, I grew up in the warm embrace of modern humanoid society and survived to old age mostly in one piece. <br /><br />But if the decline of violence the product of the evolutionary niche of classical liberalism, does its further decline not depend on the survival and spread of that niche? Pinker never quite commits himself to that point of view. <br /><br />Perhaps he stops short of that because it would raise some difficult questions.<br /><br />Classical liberalism was a withdrawal of the use of force from more and more areas of life -- from religion, from commerce, from intellectual discourse, from politics. But classical liberalism has been in a long-term decline in West. The liberal state has given way to the welfare state in which force is applied to ever wider areas of life. The state now takes much more of the citizens' product and redistributes it, and makes far more decisions in every area of life -- decisions which were formerly left to citizens. <br /><br />All this is the result of a greater use of force. Mild, gentle and beneficent, but force nevertheless. Perhaps this use of force is a necessary evil, but, as Pinker points out, that claim has always been made for every form of violence by the state. <br /><br />Pinker seems to think the modern welfare state is a force for peace. He quotes with evident approval an historian who "...argues that Europeans have changed their very conception of the state. It is no longer the proprietor of a military force...but a provisioner of social security and material well-being." (268)<br /><br />Can classical liberalism still be said to create a niche where liberty and voluntarism can flourish if it has become the welfare state where liberty and voluntarism are systematically squeezed? <br /><br />If classical liberalism is replaced by the welfare state, doesn't that entail an increase in violence?<br /><br />If the historical trend away from the use of force is to continue, does that not depend on a reversal of this trend toward the welfare state and a return to the regime of liberty and voluntarism characteristic of classical liberalism? <br /><br />Pinker paints a very convincing picture of the decline of violence over human history. But when it comes to 'why' and 'so what,' he is much less convincing. Kent Guidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00119882444127499607noreply@blogger.com